tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post5776283499541774715..comments2011-03-19T19:54:56.951-07:00Comments on Beyond the Wall: The Colonization of PalestineMichael & Joshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13631493086453326188noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-90590481839264656972010-02-02T21:32:26.926-08:002010-02-02T21:32:26.926-08:00Howard and Yoni,
Thanks for your thought provokin...Howard and Yoni,<br /><br />Thanks for your thought provoking and respectfully presented dialogue, a dialogue that stimulates the careful consideration of a variety of viewpoints and that rejects the "all or nothing" approach that has come to characterize most discussion of these issues.Larry Leveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02269927253915689384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-45163172743351534492010-02-01T21:26:42.938-08:002010-02-01T21:26:42.938-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15903248116507526830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-24903048212601097932010-02-01T20:46:24.545-08:002010-02-01T20:46:24.545-08:00But Arafat is not long gone. He is still looked at...But Arafat is not long gone. He is still looked at quite highly, to say the least. Either in one of these posts or in conversation Josh has mentioned the intense respect, near veneration, of Arafat. Further, one could make the argument that Abu Mazin is only in power by riding Arafat's coat tails. The man may be dead and gone, but his influence is most certainly not.<br /><br />I agree with you, that truly children cannot be held entirely responsible for their situation, but at a certain point, Israelis must consider the safety of their families before the well being of others. Such is the way of the world.Yonihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07859911420120355148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-36799003897562179812010-01-31T18:44:15.409-08:002010-01-31T18:44:15.409-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15903248116507526830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-24847952959633084092010-01-28T19:00:23.447-08:002010-01-28T19:00:23.447-08:00I'm not trying to belittle or demean the indiv...I'm not trying to belittle or demean the individual who you met. Not at all, it is clear to me that there is suffering. I just think that people's perceptions of events can be tinged by personal involvement. It is important to develop an opinion based on as many sources as possible, not only from first hand accounts of those involved in the situation, but also from a more zoomed out perspective. Of course, on the other hand, there is the risk involved with zooming out, that being that forgetting the nature of history as the the collective story of a great multitude of individuals can be disastrous. <br /><br />I do feel for the Palestinian people. Most certainly children born into the situation must elicit some ounce of mercy, even from the most cruel-hearted individuals. I agree with the premise that poor conditions breed extremism, but I would disagree with you on when that extremism was conceived, and claim that it is merely an extension of the Arab Uprisings of the late 1920s, and not a more recent development. Further, a group that is in dire straits, as you describe the Palestinians as being, would be expected to accept any and all agreements that they thought would ease their difficult situation. However, until now that has not been the case. While there are legitimate arguments of the extent of past agreements such as those at Camp David, there is no doubt that the entity that those very agreements would have created would have given the Palestinians considerably more autonomy that they currently possess, and by your logic, brought more prosperity. Yet their leader, Yasser Arafar, who as you saw is absolutely venerated, did not accept the terms of the agreement. Why should a group adore a leader to such an extent when it could be argued that his decision's brought more harm to them than good. Although I cannot be certain, and honestly you in your situation would be best suited to research the topic in more depth (that is, unless you would be putting yourself at risk by speaking up in any matter that suggested Israel was in the right, as opposed to the reality in Israel where there is a vocal and active left wing), it seems to me that the true inspiration for their actions lies in what is a religious/cultural connection to the region. A type and intensity of connection that mirror the love many Jews feel for the land. Many Israelis do in fact see a Palestinian state as a legitimate future entity, but it is other fair for these citizens to be guaranteed their safety. After all, ultimately a person is charged with protecting them self and their family before others. Until it becomes clear that the radical elements within Palestinian society will be willing to accept a partial state as a final solution (bit unfortunate word choice there but, eh).<br /><br />Peace man, and see ya in a few months!Yonihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07859911420120355148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-45221277420016959742010-01-28T18:59:51.536-08:002010-01-28T18:59:51.536-08:00First off, I do think what you're doing is awe...First off, I do think what you're doing is awesome. I see little direct harm coming from what you and Michael are doing. I'm also enjoying the enrichment you two are granting me with by offering an inside look. That being said, I do disagree with you on a number of points. While an insider perspective has the potential to enlighten, there is also a risk it will blind one to the greater picture. It is important to critically analyze people's claims.<br /><br />In this case, judging from what I know about the Israeli Supreme Court (i.e. it is very left wing) I find it hard to imagine that such actions could be as widespread as they are made out to be in this article. For instance, the Supreme Court recently required that the army find alternative security measures so that Palestinians who had land taken as an act of eminent domain would be permitted to use a highway that had been built on what had been their land (this basically means that a government is allowed to seize individuals land in order to bring about general good in that area, highly complicated issue of course, but as far as I know it is common government practice, again, not to get distracted, it is of course potentially more complicated as the Palestinians are not full citizens, but that's another issue) The fact that such a ruling, in a case that is levels more complex than what is described in this article, was issued by the Court leads me to believe that the situation you describe is likely much more complex than the explanation you received. At the very least, why has this man, and others affected by the lack of water and electricity, brought an issue to the Israeli court system?Yonihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07859911420120355148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-76539923559758398342010-01-28T05:57:34.455-08:002010-01-28T05:57:34.455-08:00Josh, the main reason for the Israeli only roads i...Josh, the main reason for the Israeli only roads is that the other roads are not safe for Israelis -- many having been murdered.<br /><br />I also am proud that the Palestinian family you mentioned was able to have a legal battle against the state of Israel since that would not have been allowed in other Arab countries. Also, I need to question your statement as to whether 100 years on the land without proof is enough for ownership. It wouldn't be in the United States (complicated squatters laws aside).<br /><br />That said, I do agree that the state of Israel is shafting this family (from what you have reported). If they are entitled to the land according to the courts then they are entitled to water, electricity, etc. <br /><br />The real issue -- and I don't negate the true human suffering of so many Palestinians -- is that the Palestinians keep failing to "dare the Israelis into peace." Israel, as a democracy, has proven before that it has a peace constituency willing to take risks. But sadly, until the Palestinians control the radicals in their midst (and they are very real -- and I don't think they represent a majority, but they do have a stranglehold as I'm sure you're learning) -- Israelis will be very reluctant to give more.<br /><br />You know the arguments well. The question is not how can we arrive at an overall peace, which may never happen. The question is how to make tomorrow better than today.<br /><br />Keep writing!Neil Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05316807756630382631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6881001117906855369.post-76307250744953346782010-01-24T04:58:59.838-08:002010-01-24T04:58:59.838-08:00I'm glad to see you're writing again...wel...I'm glad to see you're writing again...welcome back, and thanks for your contribution to a discussion that is too infrequent in my circles.Larry Leveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02269927253915689384noreply@blogger.com